When the Ironbird Flies
An Interview with His Holiness the Fourteenth Dalai
Lama
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Interview by Mike Hellbach. Translated by Sherpa Tulku. Prepared by Glenn H.
Mullin. From Second Dharma Celebration, November 5th-8th 1982, New Delhi,
India. First published by Tushita
Mahayana Meditation Centre, New Delhi, 1982
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Question:
Your Holiness, here in Dharamsala and also on your visits
to the West you have had considerable contact with western
people, who at present are showing a deep interest in the
Tibetan spiritual traditions. Whenever the Buddhadharma has
been absorbed into a new society, it has always been modified
so as to have the greatest impact on the minds or the people.
What can and what cannot be modified, particularly in context
to Dharma in the West?
Answer: The fundamentals of the principal practices
of Dharma ought not to be changed. For example, the bases
of Bodhicitta (the altruistic attitude of` striving
for Buddhahood as a means of benefiting all beings) and
Sunyata (Emptiness, the ultimate nature of mind
and of all things) will always be required by practitioners.
However, in order to get at the essence of these practices,
their secondary detailssuch as the sequential order
of the ways in which they are approached, the specifics of
the visualizations involved in them and so forthmight
well be modified to accord with the differing mentalities
of given people.
There were certain differences in the practices of ancient
India and Tibet, yet the essential factors of Bodhicitta,
the core of the Mahayana, were identical. The differences
were only in how Bodhicitta was actualized. Even in India
there were a number of approaches to it, such as The Exchange
of Self- cherishing for the Cherishing of Others, taught
in Santideva's Venturing into the Deeds of a Bodhisattva
(Bodhisattvacaryavatara) and The Method of Six Causes
to One Effect, taught in Atisha's Light on the Path
(Bodhipathapradipa). These different techniques were
meant to suit different circumstances; both aimed at developing
the same Bodhicitta and at outlining the practices of the
Six Perfections.
Therefore, the details of various practices can differ to
suit the western mentality; and not only to suit the western
mentality in general but also to suit the individual practitioner's
disposition.
Question: All the great masters have stressed
the importance of having a spiritual teacher in order to avoid
misunderstanding either the teachings or one's meditational
experiences. Unfortunately, at present there are few teachers
and many who wish to learn. It is advisable for such a person
to just read a meditation manual then practise from it?
Answer: This is possible. Certain advanced meditations
are dangerous if practised without the guidance of an experienced
teacher but simple meditations, such as those on impermanence,
love, compassion or the development of samadhi are good.
Without a teacher, it is best to limit oneself to small
and simple meditations.
Question: Many people wish to take up a spiritual
practice but feel committed to devoting most of their time
to job, family, etc. Is it possible to transform these concerns
into sources of spirituality?
Answer: The major attitudes one needs to do this
are kindness and Bodhicitta.
It is difficult to explain Bodhicitta in brief and still
be correct. Perhaps we can say that it is the motivation to
help oneself so as to be able to help others. This profoundly
kind attitude. Bodhicitta, is the basis of all Mahayana teachings.
To make ordinary activities spiritual, this attitude of
kindness must be incorporated within every action of daily
life. Certain meditations cannot be practised while you are
working, for example in a factory, but meditation upon kindness
and compassion can. If you sincerely try. Dharma can always
be practised.
Question: The Buddhadharma as practised by Tibetans
involves meditation upon a vast array of symbols and deities.
Does Your Holiness see this as presenting any problems to
the western mind with its monotheistic background?
Answer: This depends on the individual's character.
Some people like these deities very much ... (laughter).
Each person must think about what suits him best.
Question: Some say that these symbols and deities
should he altered so as to correspond with those of our own
culture.
Answer: This cannot be. If you follow Buddhadharma,
the deities meditated upon should have a sound reference to
the teachings of Buddha Vajradhara. They cannot be arbitrarily
created nor can they be blended with those of other methods.
It is best to follow with diligence the path most suited to
you. If you choose Buddhadharma, practise it purely. Then,
if you achieve its results, fine: if you mix practices and
achieve nothing, you shouldn't blame Dharma.
Of the various Buddhist meditational deities, the best is
Buddha. If you like others, practice them: if you don’t, simply
take Buddha.
Question: Is this 'liking' due to one's karmic
dispositions?
Answer: It has to do with karmic dispositions. Buddhism
speaks of idiosyncrasies, latent admirations and underlying
tendencies, which together with one's intellect, circumstances
and so forth constitute one's karmic dispositions. These are
major factors determining which path one should follow.
Question: Many occidental translators of Tibetan
texts lay great emphasis upon the external rather than the
inner aspects of spiritual magic. How was this problem avoided
in Tibet when the tantric texts were translated from Sanskrit
into Tibetan?
Answer: This does not seem to have been an excessively
great problem in Tibet. However, there undoubtedly have been
certain people who did not incorporate Dharma into their mental
attitudes. In actuality, anyone who practices tantric methods
for such purposes as to destroy an enemy is not really a spiritual
person. Whether or not a person is actually a spiritual practitioner
is determined by the long-term benefits that his practice
brings, not by the methods he uses.
Buddha Vajradhara taught Tantra to help beings attain Enlightenment,
not to give them an instrument for harming others. He always
emphasized that Tantra is a secret doctrine, for in the hands
of someone without the background of Bodhicitta and other
qualifications it can be dangerous and not at all beneficial.
In a commentary to the Root Text of Manjushri (Manjushri
Mula Tantra) is a story of a Brahmin by the name of Kanaka,
who was a practitioner of the Yamantaka Tantra. Although he
was an extremely strong meditator with tremendous concentration
and power, he fell into hell. His practice, meant to bring
him Enlightenment, only harmed him. In a commentary to the
Root Text of Guhyasamaja (Guhyasamaja Mula Tantra)
the same point is stressed.
Anything that has happened in Tibet along these lines is
not good and any such interest elsewhere is the same.
The true tantric practitioner has taken a commitment to
not show whatever magical powers he may possess. According
to the Vinaya rules, even if you are an Arhant
you should not openly reveal your attainments to others. It
is the same in Tantra: if you with little reason expose your
powers, even though you have certain qualifications, the basis
of your practice will degenerate.
Question: Of all Buddhist practices those of the
Tantrayana have attracted the most attention among Westerners
and not the preliminary tantric practices, but the very advanced,
'Completion Stage' practices involving meditation on cakras,
nadis, consorts and so forth. What are the advantages and
disadvantages of this interest and what are the preliminaries
of tantric practice?
Answer: It is very good that Westerners have this
interest in the Completion Stage. However, to perform these
is only of little value without first becoming proficient
in the practices of the Development Stage (where samadhi is
developed and one's attitude towards Tantra matured by means
of meditation upon the mystic mandala). Furthermore, this
interest should be based on the motivation to benefit all
beings: a difficult prerequisite. Interest motivated by mere
idle curiosity lacks the proper foundation.
Meditation upon the Completion Stage of Tantra can be extremely
dangerous, perhaps bringing many types of sickness and even
death to the unqualified practitioner. Medicines cannot cure
a sickness arising from performing these practices incorrectly;
the only antidote is the proper application of a specific
meditation.
Question: In brief, what is the difference between
Hindu and Buddhist Tantra?
Answer: To fully understand their differences is
extremely difficult. However, in brief, there are differences
in both action and philosophy. In terms of action,
the Buddhist Tantra is based on the Bodhicitta motivation
which the Hindu Tantra lacks. In terms of philosophy, Buddhist
Tantra is based on the theory of anatma, or selflessness,
whereas the Hindu is based on the theory of a truly-existent
self. Other yogas, such as breathing exercises, cakra
and nadi practices, have many similarities but subtle
differences.
Question: As self-cherishing and ego-holding are
forces which have been active since beginingless time, is
it possible to set out upon a spiritual path without developing
a negative egoism toward it, leading to sectarianism?
To avoid that it is necessary to take care that your Dharma
practice is really a Dharma practice. This way, although the
power of familiarity with ego is great, its effects are not
overwhelming. If you study Dharma but do not actually apply
it, your so-called spiritual activities can easily become
directed at material gain, fame and so forth. In which case
only egoism and such negativities as anger, attachment, sectarianism,
etc. are developed. However, if each word of Dharma that you
hear is used to cultivate your mind then every single word
brings only benefit, and no matter how much Dharma learning
you amass your learning will never go to the development of
egoism.
The most important point is to be very careful in the beginning
with your motivation in receiving a teaching or doing a practice.
If this is done well, there is little danger.
Question: Buddha Shakyamuni once said in a Sutra
that sectarianism has a karmic consequence more severe than
killing a thousand Buddhas. Why is this so?
Answer: The essential purpose of the Buddhas giving
teachings is to eliminate both mistaken states of mind and
the experience of suffering. This is also the reason that
they have worked to achieve enlightenment. The Buddhas' only
motivation is to benefit others, which they fulfill by teaching;
so despising any of their teachings is worse than despising
them. This is the implication of following one Dharma Tradition
while disparaging other Traditions.
Furthermore, the Buddhas themselves respect all the Traditions
of the Teachings, so for us not to do so is to despise all
the Buddhas.
There are many ways to look at this Sutra quotation. What
is the duty, so to speak, of a Buddha? Only to teach Dharma.
And it is Dharma which has brought that Buddha to his state
of attainment. Now, in Buddhadharma we do not accept the theory
of a Creator; everything depends on oneself. The Buddhas cannot
directly fulfill their wish to help beings, they can only
do so through the media of their teachings. We might say that
they are handicapped. Therefore, the teachings that they give
are more precious and important than they themselves are.
Because of the varying capacities and inclinations of beings
the Buddhas have taught various methods of practice and philosophy.
If we follow one of these and yet belittle others, we abandon
the Dharma and consequently the Buddhas as well.
Question: Does Your Holiness think that the various
world religions were founded by emanations of the Buddhas
manifesting in accordance with the mentalities of the specific
societies?
Answer: This is highly possible. The founder of any
religion could be an emanation of a particular Buddha. It
is for this very reason that we should treat all religions
with deep respect.
Question: Then why do these different religions
so often fight with one another?
Answer: This is a different matter. For a truly religious
person there is never any basis for quarrel or dispute. Yet
it is a fact that there have been so-called religious wars.
However, the people involved in these were not practising
religion but were merely using religion as an instrument of
power. The actual motivation was selfish, not spiritual. Religious
wars are not a question of contradictions between religions
at all.
Leaving aside the disparities between the doctrines of different
religions, there are many ostensible contradictions within
the teachings of Buddha. For example, for certain reasons
some people he taught that there is no truly-existent self,
whereas others he taught that there is. So what is a Buddha's
purpose in teaching? It is neither to boast nor to demonstrate
how much he knows, but to benefit others. Also, he is not
concerned with those of his generation alone but with many
generations and different kinds of people. Therefore, his
teachings must have many different levels of meaning, some
often seemingly contradictory. Knowing this, there is never
a valid reason for religious quarrels and disputes.
Question: Lama Je Tzong Kha Pa, founder of the
Ge-lug Tradition, studied under forty-five gurus representing
all the Buddhist lineages of Tibet. Does this mean that within
the Ge-lug Tradition we can find all the practices of all
the Schools of Tibetan Buddhism and, if not, what was his
criterion in selecting lineages?
Answer: Basically, what he did was select the dearest
lineage from amongst those available. For example, from the
Kagyü he took Guhyasamaja and The Six Doctrines
of Naropa, from the Nying-ma he took the lineages held
by Lama Lho-dak Nam-kha Gyal-tzen and from the Sa-kya he took
the lineages of Vajrayogini, Hevajra, etc.
An extraordinary characteristic of Je Rinpoche's (Je Tzong
Kha Pa) teachings is that he relates the explanation that
he is giving, such as in his Commentary to Guhyasamaja,
to many different traditions, such as the texts on Elucidation
of Valid Perception (Pramanavartika), Discipline
(Vinaya), The Middle View (Madhyamaka)
and so forth. Also, he gives brief explanations of simple
points and elaborates on those that are more difficult.
Question: Is this a general characteristic of
the Ge-lug Tradition?
Answer: No, I am speaking only of Je Rinpoche. In
a way, he is the Ge-lug Tradition, for the Eighteen Volumes
of his written works constitute their foundation. Many teachings
given by his followers we do not accept.
The same situation exists between the founders and followers
in all the Four Tibetan Traditions. There is no difference
in the profundity of the teachings of any of the Four Founders,
yet within the teachings of the groups of their followers
there are endless conflicts.
The First Panchen Lama once wrote, 'Although individual
oral traditions have different names, such as The Great Completion,
The Great Seal, The Middle Way and so forth, when an experienced
yogi with deep understanding of scriptural knowledge and logic
examines them he sees them as non- contradictory.’
Question: The traditional scriptures speak of
the Three Vehicles. Why did the Buddha teach these three?
Answer: Although the scriptures do speak of Three
Vehicles-the Hearer's Vehicle, the Solitary Realizer's
Vehicle and the Bodhisattva Vehiclethe first
two of these are counted as one, the Hinayana. The Bodhisattva
Vehicle, or Mahayana, is subdivided into the Causal Vehicle
of the Practice of the Perfections and the Resultant
Vehicle of the Practice of Tantra. Thus in Tibet we usually
speak of the two vehicles, the Hinayana and the Mahayana.
There are many different ways to look at these two. First
we'll consider them from the point of view of practice.
It is very important to have as an external basis the observance
of the Vinaya, i.e. maintaining one of the four ordinations
of a monk or nun, or either of the two ordinations of a lay
person.
For a monk, the three foundations of practice should
be followed: Rainy Season Retreat, Monthly Declarations
and The Ceremony ending Rainy Season Retreat. These
are all Hinayana practices.
In addition to the above, one should take up the practices
of compassion, Bodhicitta and the conducts of the Six Perfections,
which are Causal Mahayana.
One person can perform all these practices for the attainment
of Enlightenment; they do not obstruct one another nor cause
any constrictions within the practitioner. Therefore, one
person can practice all of them without contradiction. With
this approach there can be no basis for Hinayana disparaging
Mahayana, Mahayana disparaging Hinayana, Sutrayana disparaging
Tantra and so forth. Such is the relationship of the vehicles
from the point of view of action.
From the point of view of philosophy, Buddhadharma
can be divided into the Four Schools (Vaibasika, Sautrantrika,
Yogacara and Madhyamaka) which all come from India.
In one way these seem to be mutually exclusive. However, the
purpose of seemingly conflicting teachings within the framework
of Buddhist Philosophy is to provide a graduated approach
to the higher philosophies, leading to an ever greater, and
eventually ultimate, understanding. Therefore, none of the
four schools of philosophy is to be abandoned.
In Tibet there are four major Traditions: Nying-ma, Sa-kya,
Ka-gyü and Ge-lug. From the point of view of practice, they
are all Mahayanists following the unity of Sutrayana and Tantrayana,
as described above, on the basis of Hinayana. From the point
of view of philosophy, they are all Madhyamikas (who train
in accordance with the graduated philosophical stages explained
above). They do not differ from the points of view of action
or philosophy. Their differences are due to the time of their
coming to Tibet, the different lineages of Lamas who have
introduced them, the different emphasis on the various aspects
of practice and the terminologies by which their teachings
are transmitted. All four lead to Buddhahood. Therefore, it
is absolutely wrong to say one is better than another, or
to disparage any of them.
Question: Would you please Elucidate the difference
between Buddhist chanting and, for example, Christian prayer?
Also, what is the difference between worshipping Gods and
worshipping Buddhas and Bodhisattvas?
Answer: Most of the prayers that we recite contain
meanings to be reflected upon. This type of chanting is not
done to request or invoke the compassion of the Buddhas but
is a method of meditation, the content of the chant being
the object of meditation.
However, there is a type of chant which is done to invoke
the compassionate attention of the Buddhas. The difference
between this and worshipping a god is determined by the motivation
and the recognition of what one is doing. Whenever a Mahayana
Buddhist makes an offering or a prayer to the Buddhas or Bodhisattvas,
he is asking guidance and aid to attain Enlightenment for
the benefit of all sentient beings.
Question: In conclusion, does Your Holiness have
any general advice for practitioners in the West?
Answer: It is important to think very well before
entering a particular spiritual tradition. Once you have entered
one you should stick to it. Do not be like the man who tastes
food in all the different restaurants but never actually gets
down to eating a meal. Think carefully before adopting a practice;
then follow it through. This way you will get some results
from even dedicating a little time each day. Alternatively,
if you try to follow all the various paths you will not get
anywhere.
Also, patience in practice is required. In this age of machines
everything seems to be automatic. You may think that it is
the same with Dharmathat by merely turning on a switch
you will gain realization. Be patient. The development of
mind takes time!
You should try to maintain a steady effort in practice.
It is useless to try very hard for a few months, then give
up this kind of application and then try very hard again.
It is best to exert yourself in a constant and steady way.
This is extremely important.
If you have adopted Buddhism you should not consider yourself
a 'great Buddhist' and immediately start to do everything
differently. A Tibetan proverb states, 'Change your mind but
leave your appearance as usual.’
In all of Buddhism and especially in the Mahayana, the benefiting
of others is heavily stressed. In this context Shantideva
says in Venturing into the Deeds of a Bodhisattva,
'First investigate what is acceptable and what is unacceptable
to the people (of the society in which you live); then avoid
that which is unacceptable.' Of course, you must consider
whether or not what is acceptable and unacceptable is in contradiction
with the Dharma. If the social norm does not contradict Dharma
you should try to live in accordance with it. In this way
people will respect you. This is not done out of vanity but
in order to bring the maximum benefit to all.
In Dharma practice it is necessary to always keep an attitude
of love toward others, for this is the basis of Bodhicitta.
Love is a simple practice, yet it is very beneficial for the
individual who practices it as well as for the community in
which he lives, for the nation and for the whole world. Love
and kindness are always appropriate. Whether or not you believe
in rebirth, you will need love in this life. If we have love,
there is hope to have real families, real brotherhood, real
equanimity, real peace. If the mind of love is lost, if you
continue to see other beings as enemies, then no matter how
much knowledge or education you have, no matter how much material
progress is made, only suffering and confusion will ensue.
Beings will continue to deceive and overpower one another.
Basically, everyone exists in the very nature of suffering,
so to abuse or mistreat each other is futile. The foundation
of all spiritual practice is love. That you practice, this
well is my only request. Of course, to be able to do so in
all situations will take time, but you should not lose courage.
If we wish happiness for mankind, it is the only way.
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